Ireland Crimes and Mysteries

00:00 Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of Ireland Crimes and Mysteries. I want to thank you for joining me today. And if you're a returning listener, I want to say a big thank you for your continued support. 00:11 If this is your first time listening to my podcast, welcome. It's great to have you on board. 00:17 So without further ado, let's get started on today's story. 00:22 Ireland Crimes and Mysteries is presented by Go Loud, Ireland's leading audio publisher and the home of Irish podcasts. Find new episodes on the podcast first on the Go Loud app and on your favourite podcast platform. 00:37 By March 2023, it was coming up to four years since Valerie French had been murdered outside her home in County Mayo. Her husband, James Kilroy, had been charged within days. There had been court appearances. There had been psychiatric reports. There had been trial dates. And then new trial dates. And every time Valerie's family thought they were finally going to hear the case, something seemed to push it back again. 01:01 But on Monday the 6th of March 2023 they were back in the Central Criminal Court in Dublin. This time a jury was going to hear the case. 01:10 James Kilroy stood up and for the first time Valerie's family heard him enter a plea. 01:16 He was not denying that he killed her. Instead, he pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. 01:23 The prosecution would prove how Valerie died. The defence would try to prove that when James Kilroy killed her, he was legally insane. 01:31 And after almost four years of waiting, Valerie's family believed they were finally going to get a verdict. They weren't. 01:39 Hey guys, welcome back to Ireland Crimes and Mysteries. I'm Newells and thank you for joining me. 01:45 Now, this is part two of the story of Valerie French. So if you haven't listened to part one yet, I would definitely go back and listen to that first because we covered all of Valerie's life, her marriage to James, what happened on the night she was killed and everything her family had already been dealing with in the years afterwards. 02:01 So we finished up that part on the 18th of January of 2022. 02:06 Valerie had been dead for more than two and a half years by then and her brother David was once again sitting in the Central Criminal Courts of Justice in Dublin waiting for news about when James Kilroy's murder trial would actually begin. 02:18 That morning, Aisling Murphy's funeral was taking place in County Offaly. At 11 o'clock, they had a minute's silence for her and David was sitting in court six when that happened. And later that morning, James Kilroy was brought into court. 02:33 The defence told the judge that they still weren't ready. They hoped they would be ready within another eight weeks. Now, the judge was clearly unhappy with that. This was a murder from 2019 and it was now 2022. But the case was put back again, this time until the 5th of April. And that date had another significance for Valerie's family. The 5th of April would have been Valerie and James' wedding anniversary. That hearing came and went. So did more dates. 03:03 On what would have been Valerie's 45th birthday, the 23rd of July 2022, David was preparing to go back to court yet again to find out whether a trial date could finally be set. On the 26th of July, one was. The trial was fixed for the 12th of December 2022. There were to be case management hearings in November. 03:24 But those dates came and went as well. There were further delays on the defence side and at the end of November another date was set, the 6th of March 2023. By then Valerie would have been dead for almost four years. During those years her family had been trying to get on with their own lives while this case set permanently over their heads. 03:45 Valerie's colleagues had not forgotten about her either. In May of 2022, a memorial bench was put up for her at the rural training centre in Castlebar, somewhere Valerie had regularly visited through her work. 03:58 On the third anniversary of her death, colleagues placed flowers near her former home. 04:03 Now, the house itself was still there. So were some of the things Valerie had created. She had painted murals of birds on the front and a fox on the back. And when David later saw the house, the murals had been painted over. 04:16 And then, finally, March 2023 arrived. 04:21 On Monday the 6th, James Kilroy's murder trial began at the Central Criminal Court. 04:26 By this stage, David knew the building intimately. 04:30 He had been through the security checks and into that atrium more than a dozen times for mentions, applications, case management hearings and dates that led to other dates. 04:40 But this time was different. There was a jury and James Kilroy was formally asked how he pleaded, not guilty by reason of insanity. 04:48 The defence accepted that James had killed Valerie. The question for the jury was whether he was legally insane when he did it. 04:56 The prosecution case was opened by Senior Counsel Anne-Marie Lawler. The jury were told that James Kilroy had been found that morning after Valerie's death, partially dressed and several kilometres from the house. He was first brought into Gardaí custody and then to hospital. At one point in hospital he asked to speak to Gardaí and he told them that he had killed his wife and children. As we know, that wasn't true. 05:20 When Garda got to kill Bree, Valerie's three boys were alive. They were inside the house, but Valerie wasn't. Her body was eventually found out in the camper van. 05:30 The prosecution also told the jury about the Garda interviews that followed. James spoke about his life, his drug use, his marriage, and about killing Valerie. 05:39 The defence formally accepted that Valerie had been killed by James sometime between the 13th and the 14th of June 2019. That meant a lot of the basic forensic evidence did not have to be disputed. The jury were shown maps and photographs of Kilbury, the campervan, the shed and the surrounding countryside. There were photographs of the knife, the layout of the house was explained. So was the route James had taken after leaving the property. 06:05 And then the Garda evidence began. One Garda described arriving at the house and finding Valerie's boys inside. 06:12 The children had been alone for hours. They were described as very dishevelled. They were in dirty clothes and had soiled nappies. One of the boys was lying on the floor and appeared lethargic. The Garda that was actually giving that evidence became very emotional in the witness box and had to stop for a moment. She was a mother herself. The boys were alive but they had been abandoned inside the house while their mother's body was hidden outside in the camper van. 06:38 During the search Gardaí found the shopping Valerie had brought home the night before still left near the wall. 06:44 There was blood around the camper van. 06:46 Agarda looked through the window and saw a human hand. Valerie's body was inside. A child's car seat had been placed over her. 06:55 Back in the house, Gardie found food for the boys. One Garda later went to the petrol station and brought them some more. Cocoa pops, milk, snacks. 07:04 The children were extremely hungry. 07:07 The courts then began hearing about James Kilroy's movements before Valerie came home that night. And one afternoon of the trial was spent watching CCTV from two petrol stations. 07:18 The footage had been recorded on the 13th of June. This was the afternoon when James was supposed to collect his eldest boy from school. Instead, he had the twins with him in the campervan and spent a long time around the petrol stations. He bought food and drink. He went into the shop. He spoke to people. He moved the van around. 07:37 At one point, he helped somebody by opening a filler cap. He chatted to motorcyclists. Another witness had seen him that very day. 07:45 He was an insulation contractor Valerie had contacted about work on the house. 07:50 Valerie had told him that she wouldn't be home but her husband would be there. 07:54 The contractor went to Kilbury and spoke with James. They discussed the attic, the walls, the insulation. James offered to walk around the property with him. The contractor was later asked a very simple question. Had there been anything unusual about James Kilroy or the conversation they had? 08:13 No, there hadn't. 08:15 And there was another witness from only days earlier. Josie Rogers, the wife of the local rector, remembered seeing James at church on the Sunday before Valerie died. She had encouraged him to attend. 08:27 James came to the service and had told her that Valerie was away visiting her sister with the children. Josie thought he looked tired. 08:35 That was essentially it. Then the court came to evidence Valerie's family had been dreading. The post-mortem. 08:41 State pathologist Dr Linda Mulligan had examined Valerie's body. 08:45 We already heard the basic cause of death in part one. Ligature strangulation, blunt force trauma to the head and a stab wound to the neck. 08:54 The injuries to Valerie's hands were contributory. but the murder trial went into far more detail. There was a clear ligature mark around Valerie's neck. 09:03 There were injuries to her face and head. There was a stab wound to her neck. There were repeated blunt force injuries. There was a severe wound to the back of her hand and those injuries to her hands were described as defence type injuries. Valerie had fought him The medical evidence showed that this was not one blow or one wound. It was a sustained and violent attack. 09:27 And toxicology found no alcohol or drugs in Valerie's system. For her family, hearing all of that in a courtroom was horrendous. 09:36 Then the trial moved to James Kilroy himself. Not because he took the witness stand, he didn't, but because the jury began to hear what he had said to Gardie during his interviews. And this is where things became very strange. 09:49 James Kilroy gave Gardie four interviews and he talked. A lot. He went right back through his life, his work, his marriage and his drug use. 09:59 At one point he told Gardaí he'd been taking drugs, in his words, his entire life. 10:04 He spoke about LSD, ecstasy, cannabis and cocaine. He also told them about a psychiatric admission in 2001 after taking acid at a party. He said he had stayed away from drugs for only about six months afterwards. 10:18 Kilroy then moved on to talking about Valerie. He spoke about how they had got back together after her father died. He talked about their marriage, the houses they had bought and the children. 10:29 At one point he told Gardie what I did to her was indescribable and then he carried on talking about their life together. 10:37 Eventually, the interviews came back to the days before Valerie was killed. Kilroy said that on the Friday before her death, while Valerie and the boys were away, he had smoked cannabis, watched pornography and played video games. He also spoke about the journey to his parents' home in Oldcastle that weekend. Then he went through the final Thursday. He had taken the day off work because he hadn't been feeling well. Valerie took their eldest boy to school. James stayed at home with the twins. Later he drove out in the camper van. He stopped at a few petrol stations. 11:07 He bought food and drink. He spoke to the people. At one point, he helped somebody using a wheelchair. And while all of that was happening, his eldest son was waiting to be collected from school. Kilroy said that at some point that afternoon he began to feel as though he was being watched. Then Valerie came home. 11:25 According to his account, she was angry with him. She had spent the day working. She had already had to rearrange her morning because he hadn't brought the twins to play school and then he had failed to collect their eldest son. Kilroy said Valerie was annoyed that he wasn't doing enough. After Valerie went back out that evening he said he put the children to bed. Then his account became much stranger. 11:47 Kilroy said he went into the bathroom and shaved. He cut his hair. He got a pistol, a helmet and a suitcase. And then according to him, he climbed out through the window and began moving through the grass outside. He described crawling along as though he was taking part in some sort of a military exercise. 12:04 Then Valerie came home. Kilroy said he heard her car and Valerie calling out, James, is that you? He didn't answer her. And then he attacked her. 12:13 Kilroy gave Gardie a very detailed description of what he did. He said he ran at Valerie. He pushed her. He cut her throat. He strangled her and he smashed her head against the ground. He described the attack as a battle. He said Valerie fought back. She kicked him. She punched him. There was blood everywhere. 12:33 Kilroy told Gardie that Valerie was strong. He also spoke about the knife. He knew the type of knife. He later drew it for the Gardie. He showed them how he had used it and he was able to identify the actual knife when it was shown to him. At another point Kilroy told Gardie that he had placed the child seat over Valerie while she was still fighting and groaning. He said he thought people were coming to get him. He also told Gardaí at one stage he intended to commit adultery next. He later went to the home of a nearby woman. He described her as a supermodel. 13:04 That woman was Valerie's neighbour. Kilroy had already been seen near her home in the early hours of the morning. After that, he moved away across the countryside. Now, one of the striking things about the Garda interviews was just how much Kilroy could remember. 13:20 He described the house, the yard, the shed, where vehicles were parked, where the attack happened, where he went afterwards. When Gardaí asked him to draw a map, he was able to do it. He marked the house, the place where he had left his clothes, the neighbour's house and the route he had taken between them. But at other points in the interview, his memory appeared to change. 13:41 After speaking with his solicitor, there were questions he had previously answered where he now said, I can't remember. 13:48 There were other contradictions too. At one point, Kilroy told Gardaí that he had never raised his hand to anybody, but he had just given them a detailed account of killing Valerie. 13:59 He also gave them different accounts about whether he had used anything to strangle her. At one stage, when asked about ligature, he said he had used only his hands. The medical evidence would later show clear ligature injuries around Valerie's neck. 14:13 Kilroy was also asked about the boys. He said, I don't have words to say to them. 14:19 James Kilroy had given Gardaí a great deal of detail about the night Valerie was killed. 14:26 The prosecution also called Dr Farage. She was one of the doctors who examined Kilroy on the 14th of June 2019, the day Valerie's body was found. 14:36 Her job was to assess whether he was fit to be interviewed by Gardaí. She described him as calm, alert, cooperative. His speech was normal. He knew the names of his children. He knew their dates of birth. He knew Valerie's occupation. Kilroy told her he did not remember what happened the previous night. 14:54 He also told her that he had used cannabis at around seven o'clock and had been using it several times a week for about five years. 15:02 He said he had taken between one and two grams of cannabis and had drunk three or four pints of alcohol. He then told the doctor that he did not have any mental health problems and he said he was not taking psychiatric medication. 15:15 Because of the alcohol and cannabis he said he had consumed, she advised Gardie to wait three hours before interviewing him. She examined him again after that and she said he was fit to be interviewed. 15:27 By this stage, the prosecution expected to finish its case the following day. 15:31 But when everybody came back into court on Wednesday morning, something happened. The prosecution lawyers went into the judge's chambers. The issue was confidential. And it was serious enough that the judge warned there was a very real possibility the jury would have to be discharged. 15:46 Several days later, that was exactly what happened. The jury was discharged. There was no verdict. The case would have to go back into the court list and another trial date would have to be found. Valerie had been killed in June of 2019. It was now March of 2023. 16:04 Her family had waited almost four years to reach a murder trial and it ended without the defence case even being heard. 16:11 The detail of Kilroy's Garda interviews and the extent of his drug use were now public, but there was still no verdict. 16:18 A new trial date was eventually set for the 6th of November 2023. That would be the fifth trial date Valerie's family had been given. So, once again, they waited. And on Monday the 6th of November they went back to the Central Criminal Court in Dublin. James Kilroy stood up again and again he pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. 16:40 This time the prosecution case moved much more quickly. Everyone had been through it once before. 16:46 The CCTV footage had been shortened, some evidence was dealt with by formal admission, and several witnesses who had appeared by video the first time were now physically in court. 16:57 The defence again accepted that Kilroy had killed Valerie. 17:01 One new exhibit shown to the jury was a hatchet. It had been found inside the camper van near Valerie's body. Kilroy's DNA was on it. Then the defence began its insanity case. 17:13 Their main psychiatric witness was Dr Ronan Malani. He had interviewed Kilroy on three occasions, twice in June 2019 and again in January of 2020. 17:24 Those interviews went back over much of Kilroy's life, his childhood, his work, his marriage, his drug use, his previous psychiatric admission and what he claimed had been happening in his mind before Valerie was killed. 17:36 Kilroy spoke about physical complaints he had experienced over the years. 17:41 At different times, he had felt there was something in his throat. He had experienced unusual vision symptoms. He had gone to doctors with different concerns, but many of those symptoms had resolved. 17:53 His psychiatric history went back again to 2001. 17:57 This time, Kilroy told Dr. Melanie about taking ecstasy at a party. He said he then became convinced he might have contracted HIV. He became anxious. He thought about suicide. He also said that while visiting family in West Cork, he had asked his father whether he was going to shoot him. 18:15 That led to Kilroy being taken for psychiatric treatment. 18:19 He spent only a few days as an inpatient. Afterwards, he remained off work for several months. He was prescribed risperidone for a period, but there had been no formal contact with psychiatric services since 2002. 18:33 The historical medical records were also examined. They contained references to LSD, amphetamines, ecstasy, cannabis and other drug use. 18:43 Doctors at the time had described Kilroy as pleasant. They noted that he became tearful easily. They also recorded depression and drug misuse. Three days later, those notes recorded no evidence of psychosis. He had been advised to abstain from drugs. 18:59 Kilroy's accounts of his cannabis use were another major part of the evidence. 19:04 Because they changed. At times he described himself as somebody who hardly drank and used cannabis for therapeutic reasons. At other times he had told people about much heavier use. He had grown cannabis at Kilbury. He spoke in detail about making cannabis butter and using it to make cookies. He also spoke about smoking a high THC strain of cannabis. And he admitted a much wider history of recreational drug use going back years. 19:31 Dr Mullaney's opinion was that Kilroy had suffered a substance-induced psychosis. He did not find evidence of an enduring mental illness. The defence said that this substance-induced psychosis met the legal test for insanity. The prosecution challenged that. They went back to Kilroy's own accounts, the contradictions, the changing stories... the way he minimised his drug use in some interviews while describing far heavier use elsewhere, and the fact that he had already been warned years earlier that drugs were causing him problems. 20:02 They also went back to what Kilroy had been doing on the day Valerie was killed. He was able to drive, he was able to shop, speak to strangers, deal with petrol station staff, talk about insulation work at the house, care for the children, at least to some degree, and carry out ordinary conversations. Kilroy had later described frightening and paranoid thoughts during that day. He said that at the car wash he believed people in another car were there to kill him. He said that when motorcyclists arrived he thought they were the good guys. 20:33 But that same activity had been captured on CCTV and outwardly nothing dramatic could be seen. 20:41 The defence said that didn't rule out psychosis. A person could appear relatively normal while still experiencing psychotic symptoms. 20:49 Another defence psychiatrist was due to give evidence. Professor Keith Ricks travelled from the UK. 20:55 He had decades of experience in forensic psychiatry and he had also interviewed Kilroy. 21:02 Professor Ricks went through Kilroy's account in enormous detail. 21:06 By now some of those accounts had grown. Kilroy told Ricks that during the attack Valerie had said, what about the boys? 21:13 He also claimed that at one stage he intended to return with his shotgun. Professor Ricks examined the different paranoid and delusional ideas Kilroy had described, believing people were following him, believing there were plots against him, thinking certain things on radio and television were directed at him, believing he had special significance. 21:33 Some of Kilroy's stories had changed considerably since the first Garda interviews. But Professor Rick's evidence was not finished. And then another problem arose. He became medically unwell. The court was adjourned. 21:47 At first there was hope that he might be able to continue. But when everyone returned after the weekend, the judge was told that Professor Rick's would not be available for a considerable period of time. 21:57 The defence said his evidence was essential to their case. They could not simply abandon him as a witness halfway through. The prosecution could not force the defence to continue without him. So, on Monday afternoon, the judge discharged the jury again. 22:13 The second trial was over. 22:15 Again, there was no verdict. Valerie had now been dead for more than four years. Her family had set through two murder trials and neither jury had been allowed to decide the case. The matter went back into the list. I know what you're all thinking, you're thinking the same as myself, so you can't imagine what the family must have been thinking and feeling. 22:36 On the 28th of November 2023 another date was fixed. The 29th of May 2024 but that date would change too. Eventually the third trial began on the 10th of July 2024. 22:52 By then, more than five years had passed since Valerie was killed. Both sides knew there wasn't much room left for delay. The legal term was due to finish at the end of July. The criminal barristers' strikes also cost the trial two sitting days. But the jury were told that everyone intended to get the case finished. By now, Valerie's family had heard much of the prosecution evidence twice. 23:15 With the killing itself formally admitted, the prosecution case moved much more quickly. 23:21 The jury saw the knife, the hatchet and the strap recovered during the investigation. 23:26 The petrol station CCTV was shown again in a shortened form. 23:30 The prosecution finished its case on the fourth day and then the defence began calling psychiatric evidence. The first psychiatrist for the defence was Dr Ronan Milani, who again said Kilroy had suffered a cannabis-induced psychotic disorder. He accepted that Kilroy was what he called an unreliable historian. In other words, Kilroy's own account could not simply be taken at face value. 23:54 He had given different versions of his alcohol and cannabis use. He had described his relationship with Valerie in idealised terms. But the psychiatrist still believed Kilroy had been experiencing a psychotic disorder around the time Valerie was killed. The prosecution challenged him on that. 24:12 They put the earlier evidence from the insulation contractor and Dr Farage and the petrol station CCTV to him. 24:20 And they pointed to Kilroy's own description of the argument with Valerie. He had said Valerie was angry because he had been, in his own words, an ass. 24:29 He said she was shouting at him. He described domestic problems. The prosecution put it to the psychiatrist that there was another explanation sitting right there in Kilroy's own account. 24:40 There had been rows. There had been increasing problems in the marriage. And Valerie had been frustrated with him not doing enough. 24:48 The psychiatrist did not accept that there was a clear link between marital problems and the killing. 24:54 Then Professor Harry Kennedy gave evidence for the prosecution. He had prepared one of the psychiatric reports before the trial ever began. 25:03 Professor Kennedy He believed the most straightforward diagnosis was cannabis-induced psychosis. But he did not agree that this made Kilroy legally insane. He linked it directly to the cannabis use. 25:34 His evidence was that intoxication, including withdrawal and drug-induced psychosis, fell within the intoxicating influence of the drug. 25:43 Under Criminal Law Insanity Act 2006, mental disorder does not include intoxication. He told the court that mental illness and intoxication should not be confused. 25:55 And there were other problems with Kilroy's accounts. One example involved something Kilroy had told a doctor shortly after Valerie was killed. He claimed Valerie had stabbed him in the back. Doctors checked. There was no stab wound. And once confronted with that, Kilroy accepted that Valerie had not stabbed him. 26:13 A delusion is a fixed false belief. If someone changes the belief when shown evidence that it isn't true, that may tell you something about whether it really was a delusion in the first place. 26:25 Kilroy had also told Gardaí that he had been acting in self-defence. He said Valéry was coming to get him. But his account of what he actually did during the attack did not match that. 26:37 He'd given Gardie a detailed description of attacking Valerie. He knew where she was. He knew it was Valerie. He knew how he had used the knife. He knew where the struggle happened. 26:49 Professor Kennedy told the court that if one part of Kilroy's account could be shown to be false, the rest of the same account could not simply be accepted without question. 27:00 At different times, Kilroy said he could not remember certain things. Then later, he remembered them. Professor Kennedy said there were ordinary explanations for that. A person might be inconsistent, they might be unreliable, or they might be choosing not to tell the truth. The jury would have to decide what weight to put behind all of these possibilities. 27:21 Another detail Professor Kennedy raised came from the morning after Valerie was killed. 27:27 When Gardie found Kilroy naked in the field, he covered his genitals. 27:32 Professor Kennedy said that showed some awareness of his surroundings and an ability to act in his own interests. 27:40 Ben the Defence called another psychiatrist. Dr Lisa Wooten had a different diagnosis. 27:47 She believed Kilroy had suffered what she called acute transient psychotic disorder, a short-lived psychotic condition. She also accepted that cannabis-induced psychosis could be considered as an alternative diagnosis. 28:00 Her evidence was that a person could be psychotic and still appear outwardly normal. 28:06 So the fact that Kilroy could talk about insulation, buy things in a shop or speak to people did not automatically mean he was not psychotic. But cross-examination went back to the weaknesses in Kilroy's own history. His accounts of alcohol changed. The amount he claimed to have used changed. At one stage, he said he used cannabis only occasionally. Elsewhere, he described a far heavier history of use. 28:31 He had grown cannabis. He had bought stronger cannabis. He had made cannabis butter. He had been advised years earlier to stay away from drugs. And there was another sentence from Kilroy's Garda interviews which prosecution focused on. Kilroy had said, I knew I fucked up. 28:47 The prosecution argued that there was a difference between saying, I know I have fucked up and I knew I had fucked up. 28:55 One described understanding afterwards. The other could be read as awareness at the time. 29:01 By this stage, the jury had heard several psychiatric opinions. 29:05 Some agreed Kilroy had experienced psychosis. The disagreement was over what kind, what had caused it, how reliable his own account was, and whether it satisfied the legal test for insanity. The prosecution did not dispute that Kilroy had behaved strangely at times. That was not enough. The defence had to establish that when Kilroy killed Valerie, he met the condition set out in law for a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity. 29:33 The evidence had finally finished. The prosecution's closing speeches were relatively short. The defence went back over the psychiatric evidence. They argued that there was enough doubt around Kilroy's mental condition to support the insanity plea. 29:46 And just to close the loop on Professor Keith Ricks, whose illness had brought the previous trial to an end, he didn't return to give evidence at this trial, so the jury never heard from him. 29:56 Then Judge Tony Hunt began directing the jury. He went carefully through the law. The jury first had to consider whether Kilroy had killed Valerie. That part was accepted. 30:08 Then they had to consider whether he was suffering from a mental disorder as defined by law when he did it. And if they decided that he was, they had to consider whether the legal requirements for insanity had been met. 30:20 There were several possible verdicts. Guilty of murder, guilty of manslaughter, not guilty by reason of insanity or not guilty. 30:29 The judge told them that sentencing was nothing to do with them. They were not to worry about what punishment might follow. Their job was to apply the law to the evidence they had heard. He also reminded them that expert evidence was still only evidence. They were entitled to examine how an expert had reached an opinion, what information that opinion was based on and whether they accepted it. 30:52 Then, after nearly three and a half hours of legal directions, the jury left the courtroom. 30:58 Valerie had been dead for more than five years. 31:01 Her family had set through three juries. Two trials had already collapsed. And now finally, 12 people had gone into a room to decide whether James Kilroy was guilty of her murder. 31:12 David and the rest of Valerie's family went back to the victim support room. After everything that had happened over the previous five years, they were prepared for another long wait. They had no idea whether the jury would be gone for hours or days. The following morning, just after 11 o'clock, David was making a cup of tea. One of the Gardaí came into the room. The jury was back. They had reached a verdict. Everybody headed back into the courtroom. The jury forewoman was asked whether they had reached a decision and she said they had. 31:43 And then James Kilroy was found guilty of murdering Valerie French. It was a unanimous verdict. After five years, three juries, two collapsed trials, countless court appearances and all the psychiatric evidence the family had set true. 31:59 Judge Tony Hunt thanked the jury for their service. He also told them that he agreed with the verdict that they had reached. For David, it took a little while to sink in. The family had spent years being careful about what they said publicly because there was an ongoing murder trial. 32:16 Now there was a verdict. James Kilroy had murdered Valerie. 32:21 The sentencing was arranged for the following Monday. 32:24 Because the conviction was for murder, the sentence itself was mandatory, life imprisonment. But before James Kilroy was sentenced, Valerie's family would finally have an opportunity to speak in court. David prepared a victim impact statement. Two other statements were submitted privately. 32:41 David decided to read his himself. 32:45 He began by telling the judge that he'd waited five years to say what he was about to say. 32:50 he told the court that he was Valerie's brother and that the impact of her murder was beyond words he spoke about their mother Valerie had been killed in June of 2019 their mother died only five months later David had always believed that the enormous stress she was under after Valerie's murder contributed to her death He told the court that before all of this, his mother had been living independently. She was still driving. She'd been mentally sharp and then, within months of her daughter being murdered, she was gone as well. 33:21 David spoke about his sisters, about Valerie's friends, her former classmates, her colleagues and the people who had known her through her work. 33:30 But much of the statement was about Valerie's three boys. 33:34 Two of them were so young when their mother was killed that they could barely remember her. David spoke about one of the boys learning to talk and seeing photographs of Valerie. 33:43 One of his early sentences was, I miss mummy. 33:47 Valerie had wanted those boys so much. She'd gone through fertility treatment to have them. She kept a baby journal. She watched everything they did. And David said she genuinely felt lucky to be their mother. Now they were growing up without her. Her eldest son had been old enough to understand much more. He had helped arrange the flowers on his mother's coffin and at the grave he had placed them with her. 34:11 David spoke about how all three boys would eventually have to learn more about what had happened. Not just that their mother had died but how she had died and who had killed her. 34:22 He also spoke about Valerie herself. 34:24 She'd been strong, capable, independent. She worked, she raised the boys, she kept the house going. She helped other people through her job and David said she had given a home and a family to a man who eventually killed her. He spoke about identifying Valerie's body, about seeing the injuries to his sister, about hearing the medical evidence years later and about knowing that Valerie had fought for her life. 34:50 He also returned to something from her funeral. At the time, the congregation had been asked to pray for the person responsible for Valerie's death. 34:59 David made it clear in court that this should never have been interpreted as forgiveness. For him, there was no forgiveness. 35:07 He said there had been no remorse shown to Valerie's family and he spoke about the effect of spending five years unable to speak freely because criminal proceedings were ongoing. 35:17 He told the court that Valerie could not give her own victim impact statement. That was the reason he was standing there. 35:24 Her life had been taken from her. She had been buried in West Cork and her family were the people left behind to live with what had happened. When David finished, Judge Hunt thanked him. He then sentenced James Kilroy to life imprisonment for Valerie's murder and Kilroy was taken back to prison. 35:42 For Valerie's family the criminal case was finally over but the rest of it wasn't. 35:48 At the time of the conviction Kilroy's guardianship rights over the boys were not automatically removed. 35:54 David had already spent years dealing with family court, Valerie's estate, her home and access to the boys. 36:02 He had also applied to the High Court to take over the administration of Valerie's estate. 36:07 In March 2025, he secured that order. Separate civil proceedings against Kilroy followed as well. Kilroy also appealed his murder conviction. As things stand now, that appeal is listed for the 19th of January 2027. 36:23 The guardianship issue became a public campaign. David set up a petition, created Valerie.rip and began lobbying for change. 36:32 And that campaign did lead to a change in the law. In July of this year, 2026, the Guardianship of Infants and Child Care Amendment Act 2026, known as Valerie's Law, was signed into law. It allows a court in certain circumstances to restrict or remove the guardianship rights of a parent or guardian convicted of killing the child's other parent or guardian. That change came seven years after Valerie was killed. 36:59 David also wanted people to remember who Valerie was before her name became attached to James Kilroy. One friend had described Valerie as a warrior princess. Another called her her North Star. David often came back to one photograph of Valerie carrying one of the boys on her back. She had adapted a baby carrier to hold a quiver and was heading off to archery practice with a longbow. That was Valerie, always doing something, usually bringing the boys along with her. 37:27 There was another part of the aftermath that David found very difficult. The different versions of the story that had grown up around Valerie's murder. From the beginning he felt there had been attempts to soften what James Kilroy had done. There was talk of a tragedy, talk of illness, talk of a man who hadn't meant it, talk of a family who should simply move on. 37:48 David rejected that completely. For him, the facts were much simpler. 37:53 Valerie went out that evening to buy groceries. She came home, James Kilroy attacked her, he killed her and then he left their three children alone in the house. That was the part David wanted people to remember. 38:07 There were things about the night Valerie died that nobody will ever know. We don't know exactly what Valerie was thinking. We don't know every word that was said between them. And we don't know what she understood as the attack unfolded. 38:20 And there was one thing David kept coming back to. 38:24 The last time he saw Valerie, it was the weekend before she died, she had brought the boys to Wicklow. At one point David and Valerie were standing in the polytunnel talking. The children were running around nearby. 38:37 Valerie said something that really resonated with him afterwards. She told him that in her work they were trained to deal with psychosis and neurosis, but not, in her words, these narcissistic people we get now. David wondered later whether she had been talking only about work. He never got the chance to ask her. One of the children interrupted them. They walked off across the field. They went to look at a little fort the children had made. David carried one of Valerie's boys up the hill and they threw pine cones back down the slope. 39:09 That was the last time he saw his sister. 39:12 Then on the evening of Thursday the 13th of June, David sent Valerie a message. It was completely ordinary. He thanked her for coming over the previous weekend and he signed it, David. He didn't expect an immediate reply. Valerie had three small children. She was working. She was always busy. But the reply never came. David later said the family were mourning not just Valerie, but all the years she should have had. The birthdays, the Christmases, the boys getting older, the ordinary phone calls, visits home, school events, family gatherings, the things nobody thinks twice about until somebody is suddenly gone from all of them. 39:53 Valerie was 41 when she died. 39:56 David would later write that they were mourning the second half of her life as much as the first. 40:02 The years she should have had, and particularly the years she should have had with her sons. 40:08 Because whatever happened between Valerie and James in those final months, Valerie had kept going. She kept working. She earned most of the money. She organised the children. She looked after the house. She made plans. She tried to keep things normal for the boys. 40:23 Nobody around her believed she was in immediate danger and nothing Valerie did caused what happened to her. That responsibility belonged to the person who killed her. 40:33 For David, one of the hardest things about the years afterwards was how much everyone heard about James Kilroy. His Garda interviews, his psychiatric interviews, his versions of the marriage, his versions of the attack, his versions of his drug use, his fears, his thoughts, his explanations, his excuses. 40:53 Everybody got to hear Kilroy's voice. Valerie's voice was gone. David said that when Valerie asked him to speak at her wedding, he joked that he was surprised. Because Valerie had never needed anyone to speak for her before. She was perfectly capable of doing that herself. 41:09 We know what James Kilroy said happened. We know what Gardaí found. We know what the medical evidence showed. We know what the psychiatrist argued about. We know what the jury decided. But the one person who could have told us exactly what those final months were like for Valerie isn't here. 41:27 The yellow flowers at her wedding, ringing the church bells herself. The willow she planted. The baskets she learned to make. The outdoor kitchen she built for her boys. 41:38 The books she read about raising them. The way she told them we're a team. Her work, her friends, her laugh, her garden, her animals. 41:48 All of that was Valerie long before anyone knew her name because of a murder trial. 41:54 Valerie French was murdered on the night of the 13th into the 14th of June 2019 at 41 years of age. 42:02 Five years later, James Kilroy was convicted of her murder. He was sentenced to life imprisonment. But Valerie should have had far more than 41 years. She should have seen her boys grow up. James Kilroy took Valerie's life. He didn't get to decide whether she would be remembered. But we remember you, Valerie, and we will keep remembering you. Just before I finish, I know some of you are probably wondering what happened to Valerie's boys. The honest answer is I couldn't find any publicly available information about where they are living now and who is caring for them. 42:35 And given that they are children, I think that's probably for the best. Thanks for listening guys to Valerie's story and I'll see you all in next week's episode. Until then, take care of yourselves. 42:47 So guys, that's it for today's episode of the Ireland Crimes and Mysteries podcast. Again, thanks for your listenership. And don't forget to subscribe to the show and hit that auto download so you never miss an episode. 42:59 Until the next time, keep your eyes open and your mind curious. 43:05 This podcast has been compiled from information gathered in the public sphere, like news articles, documentaries and open source material that can be found on the web. 43:16 Everything in this podcast is alleged unless a conviction has taken place.